Animal Logic has returned after a celebrated burst of activity with their 1989 self-titled debut and 1991’s ‘Animal Logic II.’ Deborah Holland joined Preston Frazier to discuss how she reunited with Stanley Clarke and Stewart Copeland to create long-awaited new music – and what’s next for Animal Logic:
PRESTON FRAZIER: The obvious question – what caused you and Stanley Clark and Stewart Copeland to move ahead with five new songs?
DEBORAH HOLLAND: Well, first of all, it’s not five songs. It started off as five songs, but we’re only releasing two songs. The other three got released just as me, but Stewart’s playing drums on two of those tracks. Anyway, to backtrack: So we didn’t see each other for many years, and then we got together and had lunch. Don’t ask me what year it was, but it was many years after 1991. And we said, “You know, we should, we should make some music.” So we got together and we did one track, which was called “Whipping Boy.” We recorded that with audio and video at Stewart’s studio called Sacred Grove, and we released that. It was just for fun. Then I suggested, “Why don’t we get together and record more?”
So in 2019, I believe it was the year before the pandemic, we got together and laid down five tracks, and we didn’t finish them. They were just essential tracks. The plan was to finish them, but then COVID hit. Obviously, that put a damper on pretty much everything. So I decided to finish them myself, up here at a studio, near Vancouver. Two of the songs were pretty much were there – the drums sounded great, the bass sounded great – and so I just finished those as Animal Logic. The guys liked them, and they approved the mixes, and they approved the masters, and so that’s where we’re at. We’re just releasing those two songs.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Both “Can You Tell Me” and “Ordinary” are wonderful, and both of them have an Animal Logic feel, obviously. Your 2020 EP Fine, Thank You! also had five songs which could have easily fit into Animal Logic with different arrangements.
DEBORAH HOLLAND: Sure. I mean, I guess you could say any song that I’ve written could fit into Animal Logic, right? Because I was the songwriter.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Yeah, and the production is fantastic. On the songs you’ve released so far, how did you decide what elements you were going add into the production?
DEBORAH HOLLAND: I worked with a producer that I did Fine, Thank You! with. His name is Winston House Child, and he and I would just listen to the tracks and say, “You know, this would sound good with this instrument or this instrument.” Actually, when I was in L.A. Stanley [Clarke] and I got together to work on, “Can You Tell Me” the kind of bossa nova-sounding track, and I said, “This would sound really great with chromatic harmonica, and Stanley said, “Well, let’s call Stevie Wonder.” [Laughs.]
We thought chromatic harmonica would always be a good touch. Obviously, I didn’t get Stevie Wonder, but Howard Levy is amazing. Howard, because of technology, he did the track in his studio in Chicago. On “Ordinary,” I played acoustic guitar and so it was acoustic guitar, bass and drums, and you could hear what was missing. I’ve got a friend – actually, he was my high school boyfriend – who’s a multi-instrumentalist. His name is Patterson Barrett; he’s based out of Austin, Texas. He’s played on pretty much anything that I’ve done that’s solo, and so he put down the pedal steel on “Can You Tell Me,” which I thought was perfect. He just kind of gave it that little bit of a quirkier element, and then he played steel slide on “Ordinary.” He goes, “Man, I’ll put some mandolin on this tune,” and I said: “Mandolin, I don’t hear that.” But of course, the part was great, and so we kept it – and then he also did some kind of organ-type overdubs, as well.
PRESTON FRAZIER: The process, I would assume, has changed since you did Animal Logic II, in terms of how you do production with the availability of Pro Tools.
DEBORAH HOLLAND: Oh, sure. There was no such thing as like sending tracks off to Chicago back then. You know, there’s pros and cons to it. Personally, I prefer people get into a studio and make a record. That’s what I like. I’m not that nuts about the Pro Tools method of, you know, you send it off and they send you back 15 tracks of the same solo, and then you spend 10 hours editing it together. It’s not my favorite way of recording. [Laughs.] Obviously, I’m old school because I come from old-school recording, but it does make a lot of things possible. It does open up a world of players and, a way of doing things remotely that you couldn’t get that group of people into the same space at the same time.
PRESTON FRAZIER: In terms of your writing, is it more keyboard based or is it guitar based? How do you start your process?
DEBORAH HOLLAND: I write on both instruments. It depends on what kind of mood I’m in. I mean, I just wrote a song yesterday on piano. I just sat down at the piano; I felt like playing. I would say probably more of my songs are written on guitar – maybe two thirds guitar, one third piano. But sometimes I’ll start on one instrument and I’ll go, “No, this would sound better on piano,” or vice versa. I’ll start and I write very differently on both instruments. Guitar is more rhythm-based, and the piano is more moodier and melodic.
PRESTON FRAZIER: I’ve been listening to your 2013 album Vancouver a lot lately, but I had not listened to the Refugees. Is the writing process different?
DEBORAH HOLLAND: The Refugees is definitely different. In the beginning we would take songs that each of us had written separately, and what we would do is kind of make them more Americana. Mostly everything that we do always has three-part harmony, so like nothing I ever did in Animal Logic. I didn’t have two other singers [in Animal Logic], so I didn’t have that. And the three of us, when we [the Refugees] write together, I would say we come up with songs that none of us would’ve written on our own, which is fascinating. I love the songs that we write together, but definitely none of them would I have written on my own. And I think the other two members, Cindy Bullens and Wendy Waldman, would probably say the same thing. It really ends up being the three of us coming together to agree, sometimes disagree for a long time ’til we get to what we want. [Laughs.] So, that’s definitely a different process.
PRESTON FRAZIER: What do you provide Stanley and Stewart before they laid down your tracks? Do you give them a basic vocal track or a basic rhythm track?
DEBORAH HOLLAND: Whatever instrument I wrote it on and a lead vocal – that’s usually what they would’ve worked to. Stewart’s done that a lot with some of my songs. But the two that we’re releasing, we recorded together right in in the room at the same time – the basic tracks anyway, not the overdubs.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Then with the basic tracks, you’re playing rhythm guitar or piano, whichever?
DEBORAH HOLLAND: And then it gets taken out real quickly. [Laughs.] Like the song “Can You Tell Me,” the kind of bossa nova one, the way that I wrote that on guitar, I’m kind of playing a bass part to it. So we immediately got rid of it so Stanley could take over. The way that he plays, obviously, he takes up lots of harmonic space as well. So yeah, my parts typically would get in the way, and that’s even the way that Animal Logic I and II are recorded. I mean, if we were playing these [new] songs live, I’m sure they would sound very different, fuller. They would end up going into places that a studio track doesn’t go – and that was the case with Animal Logic as well. When we would play live, the songs kind of took on a completely different life. They’re suited to became more improvisational.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Has your style in terms of your vocal approach changed since you started your solo career and your career as an educator?
DEBORAH HOLLAND: I think songwriting, no, I don’t think that’s changed from the first songs that made it onto the Animal Logic album. That was a real departure for me. I had been in L.A. for 10 years, trying to get a record deal or a publishing deal, and I think I got rejected so many times. I started writing songs that were a cross between what I wanted to do and what I thought record companies wanted – and so they became, I think, soulless. And then I got to a point where I said, “Screw this. I’m going back to writing songs for me.” And the first two songs I wrote were “Spy in the House of Love” and “Firing Up the Sunset Gun,” which were the two first songs that Animal Logic recorded. So no, I’ve never gone back in terms of a writer or a vocalist.
I’m not as much of a big belter as I was in the Animal Logic days. Now I don’t know if that’s because you had to sing loudly to get over the the volume. [Laughs.] I use it more sparingly than I did back then. But I also imagine when you’re doing solo shows or shows with the trio that it takes a different voice to convey what you wanna convey to the audience, as opposed to when you’re playing with a very strong, powerful electric bass. And even back then, I think it was between the first and second album, I actually had to have vocal surgery. I got blood blisters on my vocal cord. So I had Stanley’s wall of bass speakers and, you know, super-loud volume. Even in the studio, I was more of a belter with them. I really use it a lot more sparingly now.
PRESTON FRAZIER: We talked about the two songs, which were released on Nov. 18. The other three songs which you mentioned, are there any plans for them in the near future?
DEBORAH HOLLAND: They just got released as singles. I never pressed them into any kind of form. I’ve thought about maybe if I ever record another record – I’ve got about eight, seven or eight new songs and maybe I would add those to a record. That’s the only thing that I’ve thought about.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Why would you not record another record? I mean, you have an extensive solo career as it is.
DEBORAH HOLLAND: Why? Because it’s super expensive. Nobody cares about records anymore. I mean, I probably will just because I like having a record of my songs. [Laughs.] But it may just be a real stripped-down version. It might just be one instrument and voice. I don’t know; I’m not there yet. I’ll see if I make any money from this, from these two songs, just to pay for another one. You know, I did the crowdsourcing thing once. It’s a lot of money to make a record. I mean, I love being in a studio; when I’m in a studio, that’s home. You know, I just love it but it’s expensive. I was hoping someone would put out these two songs on vinyl. My idea was to release a two-sided vinyl single, and I couldn’t find anybody to do that even. And that’s with Stanley Clarke and Stewart Copeland. So, you know, it’s very difficult these days to do any kind of physical product.
PRESTON FRAZIER: What is your next step for Animal Logic, or for your solo career?
DEBORAH HOLLAND: Well, for Animal Logic, I’m just curious to see if the two songs lead to anything. I, of course, would love to do more with them, but they are both incredibly busy. I mean, Stewart’s got things like over the next five years, and I don’t know that they wanna go out and tour. I mean, of course I would. I’m in a different position than either one of them. I don’t have that level of career. Nothing would give me more pleasure than to than to tour with them. I would love to do some more recording in the future. That’s not out of the question, but it would be hard to organize. And I even have a plan of what I’d like to do next time – which is, I don’t wanna bring in finished songs. I wanna bring in lyrics, and we write the songs together.
I would love to do that, because I think it’s boring for both of them at this point in their career to just learn someone else’s song. But I think that idea of creating the songs together in the moment, creating them and writing them and recording them could be fun. But whether that happens, I don’t know. Solo, I’m in a writing phase right now. We’ll see what happens with that. And my trio, the Refugees, we’re just finishing up a new album and we are going to be touring. So we have three shows in January in the L.A. area, and then we’re playing in Lawrence, Kan., on Feb. 6th. We’re playing an arts theater there, and we’re starting to book festivals for next summer. So that’s what’s going on.
Featured image of Deborah Holland courtesy of Jane Thomson Photography.
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