Jon Herington drops by to discuss ‘Chunks and Chairnobs,’ his terrific new project with Jim Beard, as well as covering Steely Dan, and his all-time favorite albums:
PRESTON FRAZIER: It looks like Chunks and Chairknobs was recorded over a pretty short period of time in January. I think it was several days. Could you tell me a little bit about how it came about?
JON HERINGTON: Jim [Beard] and I have been talking about the idea of doing a tour, and it sort of led to this project. We were trying to do some local shows a couple years ago. We decided just to try it out, and that was when we began to look for songs that would work and build up a repertoire. We weren’t thinking about a record at all. We were just thinking about booking some dates. We talked to a promoter that Jim knew from years past in Europe. We thought it might be nice to try to get a European tour going, and he talked to a promoter who could put things together for us – but he said we needed a record to make the tour happen. The idea of making a record came out of the desire to do some gigs over there. Jim got in touch with an old friend who got us connected to the Jazzline label. We didn’t start out to make a record we just made it, because he thought it might be the only way we can get touring booked. We’re still working on that. We do have we some dates up in Ireland in March next year, but that’s all we got so far. Chunks and Chairknobs represents what we’ll do live, and is a great help in booking.
PRESTON FRAZIER: If I recall, the project was around the time Steely Dan had the first residency in Vegas, and they didn’t have a major tour planned that year.
JON HERINGTON: I think that’s right. That year, a couple things happened for me. I have been working pretty hard for many years with the trio of mine [Jon Herington Band] whenever I was off the road not working with Steely Dan or Madeleine Peyroux. One particular year. maybe two or three years ago now, our drummer got a gig for the entire year with Jimmy Buffett. Buffett was creating a musical, which ultimately made it to Broadway. Frank [Pagano] was involved with all that, so I had a little time on my hands. Madeleine Peyroux keeps my busy in between my work with Steely Dan, too. During the first Steely Dan residency, Jim and I were rehearsing a lot of the tunes which are now on the album. It was also a practical thing: Because we both work for Steely Dan, we would be busy doing that at the same time and not busy when the band wasn’t working. Jim also works with Madeleine Peyroux sometimes, too. It took a while for us to figure out what tunes would work. That’s been kind of fun.
PRESTON FRAZIER: The album has eight tunes on it, and one of the originals I was not familiar with – “Double Blind.”
JON HERINGTON: Yeah, “Double Blind” was a song I wrote many years ago. It was on my first solo album, which was an instrumental record that I did for a Japanese label a long time ago called The Complete Rhyming Dictionary. It was a [1992] Japanese release which went out of print. I retitled it and rereleased it under the name Pulse and Cadence. We kind of reworked it for a duo. Each of us found two songs of ours which represented our writing styles. There are four tunes which are more or less standards that we picked. The challenge when you don’t have a bass player and drummer is you have to find other ways of making the tune feel complete. Two is pretty low number, considering in Steely Dan we have 13. The challenge at first is to try not to do too much; the tendency is to try to fill up the space. When you learn to resist that and you choose the right thing, you end up exploring a different side of the music – the side where there’s more air and there’s more space. On Jim’s tune, “Chucks and Chairknobs,” I have a funky little rhythm guitar part where I’m playing behind Jim’s melody, and he has to play the bass line. I asked, ‘How about you just play the melody by yourself, and I’ll just add my part?’ Sometimes, less is more with the arrangements.
PRESTON FRAZIER: The songs do have a lot of space. “Chunks and Chairknobs” is a good example. How did you decide which of your songs and which ones of Jim’s fit this project, and how did you arrange them?
JON HERINGTON: I had fewer original instrumental tunes to choose from, so it was a little easier for me. Mostly, I would just sort of listen to them, then tried it just to see if there is any kind of way I could imagine working with just two people. There was a lot of trial and error. We share a studio in Manhattan, so we would just try things out. With “Hope and Woe,” another original of mine, we did find certain sections were hard to play – given what we played on the original. We had to rethink several sections. It evolved over quite a period of time. That song underwent quite a bit of surgery before we got the version on the record. My suggestions were sometimes to ask Jim to do less or remove something. It’s tricky. There’s a couple of amazing duo records by Bill Evans and Jim Hall, they were the closest thing to a model for me. We weren’t trying to imitate them – we couldn’t, because we’re different players – but they have a way of seamlessly exchanging roles. It was a fun thing, to have the limitations of just the two instruments, and it was certainly challenging. The music is not easy to play. Everybody can hear every little nuance, but I look forward to the challenge of playing live. One gig is like 10 rehearsals.
PRESTON FRAZIER: You did include an interesting Steely Dan song.
JON HERINGTON: We love the song “Gaucho.” We have been playing a couple of others; “Here at the Western World” we had done live. But “Gaucho” survives really well as a duo, and we liked including a Steely Dan song. It’s such a gem compositionally. We really didn’t have to do much to it. Jim did do something on the chorus with his left hand, but mostly he’s playing what he plays on the gig with the band. I took over the role of the intro saxophone and the middle horns and melody. There was plenty for me to do.
We don’t play that enough with Steely Dan. The Gaucho album is a treat.
PRESTON FRAZIER: What guitar did you use on Chunks and Chairknobs?
JON HERINGTON: I played by Gibson Custom SC336. I’ve been playing it since 2001, and it’s been through a lot. I may switch it out for a custom Eastman guitar soon.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Jon, before I let you go, please tell us your Top 5 favorite albums.
JON HERINGTON: That’s a hard one to answer! Check out my Truefire page. My list there is pretty extensive and covers a lot of genres. For example the Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, Donald Fagen’s The Nightfly, Jimi Hendrix’s Are You Experienced?, Cream’s Disraeli Gears, Joni Mitchell’s Blue, Miles Davis’ Porgy and Bess, Herbie Hancock’s Speak Like a Child and Weather Report’s Heavy Weather. That’s a few, in no particular order.
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