CJ Vanston joins Anthony Sonego for the conclusion of a three-part Something Else! Sitdown that’s touched on his breakthrough with Richard Marx, meeting Toto and subsequent career intersections with Joe Cocker, Steve Lukather and Spinal Tap. Today, they dig more deeply into 2015’s Toto XIV, which found Vanston serving as co-producer …
ANTHONY SONEGO: How did this opportunity come about?
CJ VANSTON: I had co-produced and mixed Steve Lukather’s previous two solo albums, [2010’s] All’s Well That Ends Well and [2013’s] Transition. I’m proud of both of those albums, but especially Transition as Steve and I built that one from the ground up. Evidently, the guys in the band heard Transition and dug it, and then asked me to fly to Poland to co-produce and mix [2014’s 35th Anniversary Toto] Live From Poland DVD. Again, really proud of how that one came out, the guys – not surprisingly – played their asses off, so it made my job a lot easier. A while later, I ran into David Paich at a Grammy party, and he grabbed me by the shoulders and said “I need you.” I asked what for and he said, “Our next album. I want you to do it.” ’Nuff said for me. I was pumped and primed for that job. I said yes.
ANTHONY SONEGO: Tell us about how you and the band planned the project. Was there an overarching goal or was it simply: “This could be our last album, so let’s make the best one we can”?
CJ VANSTON: There was no talk of “this is our last album,” or any of that. The big inspiration was having so many core members back together. Of course, we wanted to create something very fresh and next-level, but since we had that core together, we also wanted to pay homage to Toto’s signature sound – namely [1982’s] Toto IV. That’s one of the reasons the band named this one with Roman numerals – because we felt it was a continuation of Toto IV. And, of course we said “let’s make the best one we can,” when don’t you say that?
ANTHONY SONEGO: Good point! Were all the songs written beforehand – or were there some that were co-written as part of this recording process?
CJ VANSTON: Both. Everyone worked hard and brought their “A” games to the writing process.
ANTHONY SONEGO: In that case, if songs were prepared beforehand, how were the tracks recorded? Were basic tracks done to a click and drums recorded later – or were the drums first?
CJ VANSTON: Almost all of the tracks were demo’d in Logic and built from there. Click was used on almost everything, but there were some complex tempo maps, etc. The drums were recorded later, once we had all the arrangements in place.
ANTHONY SONEGO: So, how did you record drums?
CJ VANSTON: In my studio, I record vocals, I record guitars, cellos, horns, etc., but what I don’t record is drums. There are too many cats way more qualified than me to do that. So, we went to one of our favorite rooms on the planet, Capitol Studio B, to cut the drums over two or three days with monster drummer Keith Carlock.
A few months earlier, I had done a project with Bruce Gaitsch, Mike Landau, Lee Sklar and Curt Bisquera in that exact room with engineer Csaba Petocz. I had never worked with him, but had heard his name many times. Bruce told me: “Wait until you hear this guy’s drum sounds!” Well, we sat and watched as he dialed in Curt’s drums and it was something to behold. I’ve spent the last 30 years recording with the top engineers on the planet and – just like all the guys in Toto – I’m spoiled. Csaba absolutely blew me away, the sounds were so clear and powerful, just the way I like them.
We cut a track, everyone was raving about the drum sounds. Then Csaba interjected: “Hey guys, would you mind if I spent another 15-20 minutes on the drums? I can still make them better.” We all looked at each other like he was crazy but thought “ok, I gotta see this.” Well, he did make them even better. So, I suggested Csaba to the Toto guys, and they basically trusted me and we went with him. He did an amazing job. Sadly, it was one of his last records. We lost dear Csaba not soon after we cut those tracks. He was an incredible talent, and on top of it was one of the sweetest, most calming souls one could ever work with. When we were finishing up transferring all the drum parts, he pulled me aside and confided almost tearfully that it had been a lifelong dream to work with Toto – and that he felt fulfilled to work on the record, that now he could cross it off his wish list. That meant so much to all of us.
ANTHONY SONEGO: In terms of you playing keyboards, what did you use?
CJ VANSTON: I’m almost entirely plugin based at this point, despite owning a huge collection of vintage analog gear. The plugins have gotten so good, and are so much more convenient, along with the fact that you can always tweak sounds after the fact. No contest for me. I used a lot of Spectrasonics Omnisphere, a bunch of sample libraries from Spitfire and 8dio, and a lot of sounds from Toontrack, especially their EZ Mix plugin: The name defies the incredible sounds this thing gets!
ANTHONY SONEGO: Was there any ever big discussion or direction about sounds, like “we want you to play steel guitar,” or did the band leave you alone to add your touch?
CJ VANSTON: Don’t remember getting much specific sound direction. Most of the time, I’d do stuff on my own time and present it to the band. I will say that most of what I did I fully expected it to be replaced. My God, I’m working with two of the greatest keyboard players on the planet, Steve Porcaro and David Paich. These guys are huge mentors and heroes to me. But anyway, some of what I did just fit, and I have to give it up to the band that they left them on the record. No egos involved.
ANTHONY SONEGO: I remember Steve Porcaro lamenting the fact that when Toto worked with other producers, they’d have heaps of songs to choose from to make an album – but for their own albums, they were so proficient they usually cut the first dozen or so tracks and that was the album. Did the band just record those 11-12 songs, or were there more to choose from?
CJ VANSTON: Well, that’s mostly true. There were a bunch of song starts that were not pursued –most of them mine. [Laughs.] But I think by the time one of the guys would bring a song in, they had self-edited and deleted the ideas that weren’t up to the high bar that had been set. There was such a sense of having to “bring it” on this record. We all had a sense that we were making something special in time, a statement and time stamp of this incredible band of peerless musicians.
ANTHONY SONEGO: With this in mind, were there any finished songs that were left off the album?
CJ VANSTON: Not that I can think of, no. Not finished ones.
ANTHONY SONEGO: Alternately, did you push the band to go and write other songs, if you identified a gap in the album?
CJ VANSTON: As we went along, we did write a couple of songs that organically filled gaps in the tempos/feels that weren’t yet represented. “21st Century Blues” comes to mind. Luke said: “We gotta have a shuffle!”
ANTHONY SONEGO: Great track. I heard recently via an interview with Rick Beato that Steve Lukather is particularly proud of that solo. There’s also a great story about the outro piano vamp from “21st Century Blues.”
CJ VANSTON: [Laughs.] We were at Paich’s studio and he said: “I think we need some New Orleans-ish piano on the outro vamp.” We all agreed that that would be great. David then said, “We should call [ace keyboardist and Falling in Between-era Toto member Greg] Phillinganes!” Now, Greg is a ridiculously great player and a legend, and I’m sure he would have torn it up. But I got a little riled – and maybe a little competitive – and said: “I can’t believe you’re saying that when you and I are standing here!” Paich thought and then put a finger in my chest and said: “OK, then – let’s hear you play the end!” It was kind of a good-natured taunt, but I took it as a challenge. I went out and played it in one take. When I finished, Paich came running out, screaming “I hate you!” and gave me a huge hug. Wonderful moment. I respect David immensely.
ANTHONY SONEGO: Can you tell us about your involvement with arrangements?
CJ VANSTON: Oh gosh, it ranged from small ideas to suggesting sections have their order changed. Maybe a modulation, a different intro or bridge. Honestly, we worked so fluently together that I don’t remember who suggested what – and I don’t care. I will say that the guys welcomed my ideas, which created a great atmosphere for creativity.
ANTHONY SONEGO: Are there any particular song, or songs, that you’d like to focus on?
CJ VANSTON: Well, “Great Expectations” was epic. We pulled out all the stops for that one. I remember one day while we were working on it, and I made a mini-Al Pacino speech about how good this band was, a bit of a pep talk. We are all close to the same age, and I mentioned that we had grown up in the greatest era of pop, R&B and rock music ever. I started mentioning names of the bands whose albums we had all listened to a hundred times. I mentioned Yes, then someone mentioned Jethro Tull. Then came Stevie Wonder, then the Who, Mahavishnu, Bill Withers, Herbie Hancock, Led Zeppelin, Elton John, the Beatles. We all were sitting in front of the TV that amazing night when they debuted on the Ed Sullivan Show and it changed all of our lives. Of course, the Rolling Stones, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Focus, Pink Floyd, Cat Stevens, Genesis, Deep Purple, Weather Report, Chick Corea and Return to Forever, Tony Williams, Frank Zappa. Sheesh, I could go on and on.
My point was that we spent so much time inhaling all this incredible music – learning it, playing it – no wonder we got so good at what we do. Look at our teachers! So, “Great Expectations” became an epic song that had a lot of those influences in it. After all the songs were close to being finished, we were putting together the song order and someone asked, “where should we put ‘Great Expectations’?” I did a silent take, then said: “Well, we certainly can’t follow it with anything!” We all instantly knew that it would close the album.
ANTHONY SONEGO: How did you manage decision-making time with Toto?
CJ VANSTON: Oh, it was a bit of everything. Some very impassioned moments, some of the usual clashes of opinions and approaches. But the main rule at my studio is that we try anything. So, when somebody had an idea, instead of talking about it for 20 minutes, we’d try it. Usually, we knew right away whether it was going to work or not.
ANTHONY SONEGO: How would you sum up working on this project? What does it mean to you personally?
CJ VANSTON: Co-producing this band is one of the great honors of my career. I have nothing but the highest respect for this band and its incomparable musicians. It took me 30 years to get in the room with Toto. I was a huge scholar of their work from the very beginning, and I think it was a great fit. We share so many sensibilities and influences, as I said before. And on top of that, these are really great cats to work with, so whip smart and funny, true brothers. I must also mention that it was Greg Ladanyi – who mixed Toto IV and was one of my dearest friends – who introduced me to the band. Greg and I made records together for over 20 years, and thus had a special link to Toto. I wanted to bring all my experience with Greg to the project, in his honor. We all miss him so dearly. I’d also like to think I brought something fresh of my own to the table, along with a desire to pay respect to Toto’s heritage and core sound. I think the band agrees that we achieved that with Toto XIV.
- Toto, “Spanish Sea” from ‘Old Is New’ (2018): Toto Tuesdays - June 15, 2021
- Toto, “Devil’s Tower” from ‘Old Is New’ (2018): Toto Tuesdays - May 11, 2021
- Toto, “Alone” from ‘Old Is New’ (2018): Toto Tuesdays - April 27, 2021
