Preston Frazier was once again joined by Bernie Chiaravalle to discuss ‘Chiara Destino,’ his latest release, along with updates on his long collaborations with Michael McDonald and choosing the perfect cover song:
PRESTON FRAZIER: I last spoke to you before the release of This Is What I See, which came out in 2020. Since then, you have been nonstop with your solo work and have taken a break from the road since Michael McDonald has been touring with the Doobie Brothers.
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: COVID changed everything for everybody. I was going crazy, not working. I poured myself into my writing and recording – which is my first passion anyway, so it worked out.
PRESTON FRAZIER: You’ve produced some beautiful albums of original material. I usually ask artists to list their Top 5 albums when I interview them for the first time. Many artists have told me that’s an unfair question because how can you narrow it down to five?
In 2019, you mentioned the Beatles’ Rubber Soul and White Album, Stevie Wonder’s Songs in the Key of Life, Crosby Stills and Nash’s debut album, and Paul McCartney’s McCartney. One of the wonderful things I love about Chiaro Destino is that you pulled songs from many of those same artists.
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: I agree with that list. As you said, the first album that came to mind was Rubber Soul, so I feel the same.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Seeing you build these songs up on your Patreon page, and you’ve been so active in the last few years, is a treat. Great songs and great production, and the production piece also carries over to your new work Chiaro Destino, which means “clear destiny” in Italian. Is that correct?
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: Yes, I was going to call the album Destiny, then I just put “destiny” into Italian, and that’s what came up. I went, “chiaro” is like the first part of my last name.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Let’s dig into these great songs, in no particular order. One that moved me was “I Want to Tell You,” a George Harrison composition from the Beatles.
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: Another Beatles album that I love is Revolver. That’s from that album initially. The guitar line alone was just as monumental as a guitar player. A kid learning how to play guitar was an essential one to learn. That always struck me, and I loved the sort of shuffle feel that the Beatles had on it. It was an unusual song. I tried not to make it sound too much like George’s version, but it came out that way. Many Beatles songs were really important for me as I was learning how to play guitar. I could have done a whole cover album of Beatles songs alone. I wanted to be able to cover many artists. I did one of each of the primary writers, John, Paul and George as the Beatles, and then one of them as a solo artist. I picked that song for George’s Beatles song. So that’s the story.
PRESTON FRAZIER: I love what you just mentioned about picking not only a Beatles song that influenced you but also some of their solo work. Let’s move to Paul McCartney’s “Motor Of Love” from Flowers in the Dirt
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: That song has always stuck with me. I mean McCartney, he’s a genius anyway. That’s one of them that stuck out to me. I went to record a few other things by Paul, but that’s the one that I felt like I connected most with. I couldn’t sing it in his key. I had to pull it down a couple of keys, but I don’t know if he can sing it in that key anymore. I’m proud of that one, too. I stayed pretty true to Paul’s original arrangement, but I gave it my own at the same time. I just thought it was an unusual lyric. The Beatles were so much about love and their lyrics, and McCartney continues to carry that tradition on, and I follow him. He’s a role model to me.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Your album includes several deep cuts that some fans may not be familiar with. What was your approach to guitar for “I Want to Tell You”?
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: On the Revolver album, George and John both used Stratocasters at that point – and the Beatles’ sound is very Stratocaster. I thought, “Well, I’ll do something different,” because I didn’t want to copy it. So, I played the main riff on acoustic guitar, which I thought was a different twist. I beefed it up a little bit with electric guitars in the background. The original has a dissonant piano part. I played that on guitar, and it was fun to come up with my interpretation of the songs and still keep their versions in mind.
I used a piano sample that was very much like a piano sound, very much like the sound that McCartney played, but I made the guitars more predominant. I played my Gibson J-45 acoustic on “I Want to Tell You.” I’m pretty sure I used my 335 for the electric stuff. I’m not sure of that. I’ve been deciding between a Gibson 335, my Gibson SG, or, lately, my Dusenberg. It’s like an electric, sort of like a Les Paul. It’s a semi-hollow body. It’s a nice guitar. Those are my three main go-to guitars these days for recording.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Let’s discuss another deep cut, “Laughing” by David Crosby.
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: David Crosby’s album If I Can Only Remember My Name was one of those that influenced me as a kid. That was right up there with McCartney for me. It’s a bizarre album: He used open tunings like Joni Mitchell. His vocal arrangements always appealed to me, the way he built a lot of his vocals. I think Joni Mitchell sang on that particular song as well. Years later, I learned that that song was actually about George Harrison. When I listen to the lyrics, I’m not sure how it is associated with George, but that’s what I’ve read: It’s about George Harrison. That song has always stuck with me, so I recorded it before I started this album. It had been sitting for a while, so I had it started. It’s just always been one of my favorite songs. And again, I stuck to David’s arrangement but made it a little more modern in the rhythmic sense.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Were there any challenges in figuring out the tuning?
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: I use an open D tuning; I tune the D, the low D, and the high E, or that’s low and high E’s down to D. They may have used a more intricate tuning. I know Crosby used some strange tunings. It’s bizarre. It’s like, where did that come from? Once you tune it to the notes he used, you go, oh, that’s how we came up with those chords. But “Laughing” was a little more straight ahead. It’s just a one-chord, and he goes up to the three-chord and the four-chord.
It’s pretty simple. It’s very modal, a drone-like open tuning.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Another deep cut is by Jimi Hendrix called “Angel.”
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: Jimi Hendrix is among my favorite guitar players of all time.
I would rate him – Steven Stills, Eric Clapton, all those guys are equally great to me, but Hendrix is kind of in a class all to himself. His writing is underrated. That’s why I picked that song. I was going through Hendrix tunes, but I’d forgotten about that song. It’s obscure, in a way. I made it a little more straight-ahead than his version. I made the groove a little more steady. I love the lyrics. Hendrix had a certain innocence about him that I loved, and I loved his personality. He was all about peace, love, and being calm, and music is love. I think that song kind of stems from Hendrix pretty well, and I’m proud of the way that one came out, too — I really am.
PRESTON FRAZIER: It’s brilliant, and you’re right – the song is not what first comes to mind when people talk about Jimi Hendrix, but I love your take on it. What did you play on that?
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: I played my acoustic again, but for electric, I used my 2015 Dr. Mojo, which is basically a Telecaster. It’s modeled after a Telecaster, but it gets that Strat sound when you put it on the bass pickup, and that’s primarily that guitar. Of course, I played bass on it, drums, all that stuff, and a little bit of keyboard.
PRESTON FRAZIER: How about “Happier Than the Morning Sun” by Stevie Wonder?
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: That was another challenge for me because I played Stevie Wonder songs through the years in club bands, and even with Michael McDonald, we covered “Living For the City.” We even did “Superstition” when we toured with Toto when Tommy Sims was in Mike’s band.
We’d done a bunch of Stevie stuff but you know, like Michael, it goes without saying he’s one of the masterful vocalists of our times. I’m not a vocal gymnast like Michael or Tommy Sims, but I have my own style. So, I had to pick a song that I felt I could do justice to somewhat. And I picked that one because it was, first off, it was something I felt I could sing. But I always love Stevie’s nod to the Beatles. I know Stevie is a big Beatle fan. I can hear the Beatles’ influence in that song. It’s more like “Blackbird,” in a way. I’m singing it in the same key that Stevie sang it.
PRESTON FRAZIER: Well, your version is pretty amazing. You mentioned your vocals, and we talked about five years ago about how you expanded your vocal approach when you joined Michael McDonald’s band, working with him and Chuck Sabatino. Listening to your solo albums, I see that there’s such a fantastic range in terms of your vocal approach. You do a great job covering some of those pretty tricky songs to sing, much less play, and you do it all.
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: I’ve had to work on my vocals, but you know, practice makes better anyway – and you know, when you have somebody like Michael or Chuck or some of the other people who were in the band, you learn from them. I think I recently posted some live versions of it on Patreon when I first joined the band. When I first started singing with those guys, I was given many of the high parts that David Pack sang, and it was challenging. But it’s like playing tennis with a pro. You’re playing with those guys, you’ve got to bring your game – otherwise, you’re going to lose. I have those guys to thank for inspiring me. Expressing myself that way is still very important to my soul and my being.
I was excited to do “Things We Said Today,” which McCartney wrote. That was another one I started a while back. I did it as an exercise. I never thought about putting out a cover album until I did this one, and that was a Paul song I always loved. And to be honest, a friend of mine, Susan Martyr, sent me a jazz version of that song, and I can’t remember who the artist was who did it. I thought it was okay, but I was impressed with the bridge of that song. The chords are unusual and the jazz interpretation made me go, oh, that’s an exciting way of looking. So, I made it my own but adapted it to work differently. The one chord stays the same, but the top triads all change. I lowered it a little bit and came up with my own guitar figure. I’m proud of that one because I think it’s more – it’s so unlike the original version, except for the melody. So I’m proud of that one because I think that’s a faithful adaptation of that song. And I’ve probably gotten more compliments on that one from the whole album. People seem to respond to that one. It’s much more of an acoustic version. The Beatles version was even kind of a rock thing with Lennon strumming, which is brilliant in its own right, but I had fun with that one.
PRESTON FRAZIER: You also put your stamp on “My Back Pages,” originally done by the Byrds and written by Bob Dylan. Did you use a 12-string guitar on it?
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: Yes, that’s my, Gretsch. I played an acoustic 12-string and my Epiphone 6-string acoustic; there are a lot of guitars on there. I tried to stay true to the Byrds’ version because that arrangement is epic. I threw my two cents in there with some of the vocal arrangements, but their version is pretty accurate. It’s always been one of my favorite Byrds songs.
PRESTON FRAZIER: You mentioned that you’ve recorded many songs, and your Patreon page has a number of songs you did not include. How many did you record that were not among the 14 included?
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: About 30. Wow, even a little more than that. I recorded a lot. I’ve found that it’s just good to do it, and then the time is kind of the judge results and the album flow. I let a lot of my stuff sit for a while, and then I’ll revisit it months later and go, okay, this is what I should have done. This is what needs to come out. This isn’t, so yeah, I’ve got a lot. I’ve thought about doing a volume two of the cover things, which I may do. I also had to go out and buy licensing for these songs, which wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. It was actually pretty simple. You pay a fee, and it’s yours to use. I’m not kidding myself. CDs don’t really sell these days. Even though I have sold enough to make my money back, it’s streaming, and streaming doesn’t make much money. The streaming thing can be a little frustrating, so I encourage people to always buy the CD directly from the artist. Unfortunately, a lot of people take music for granted.
PRESTON FRAZIER: If I could ask about something I did not know, it would be “Dino’s Song” by Quicksilver Messenger Service.
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: They were a local band from San Francisco that never really made it nationally. They were really big in the San Francisco and East Coast New York scene. They would play the Fillmore on both coasts. They were sort of like the Grateful Dead or the Jefferson Airplane. The version I loved the most was the four-piece band with John Chippellina, David Freiberg, Greg Elmore, and Gary Duncan. I used to see them play locally, and their first album, a self-titled record, had “Dino’s Song” on it. It was just a great guitar song for me starting out. It was written by their original lead singer, Dino Valenti. That song is definitely obscure. I know a lot of people probably don’t know about it. That song truly influenced me as a guitar player as a kid. A year ago, my band was auditioning drummers, and Greg Elmore from Quicksilver auditioned. We hired him, and Greg was in our band for a year or two. He was a great guy and a great drummer. He tuned his drums kind of like John Bonham from Led Zeppelin. He was just kind of this big drummer. It was fun.
PRESTON FRAZIER: How about Todd Rundgren’s song from his album, Hermit of Mink Hollow, which is fantastic. “All the Children Sing,” that’s another I’m not familiar with.
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: Yeah, that album, Hermit of Mink Hollow, is another landmark album for me as an up-and-coming writer. I was a Todd fan from the beginning. He did a lot of stuff, was very influenced by the Beatles, and played all the instruments on his albums. Todd was a musical hero to me there because that’s what I’ve always wanted to do, and that’s what I still do.
But on that album, Hermit of Mink Hollow, he played all the instruments. The opening cut was “All the Children Sing.” It’s just a fantastic song.
I’m really proud of the song “Four Days Gone.” Buffalo Springfield really influenced me. Of course, that was before Crosby Stills and Nash. Stephen Stills is my favorite guitar player. I certainly put him right there with George Harrison and Jimi Hendrix, and maybe Dave Mason was another guitar player I idolized – but Stephen Stills, to me, is his songwriting, guitar playing, and production values in Buffalo Springfield. In the beginning, I remember thinking about it when I was young and listening to that song. It was so unusual because it was about a guy who goes AWOL. I mean, he’s in the service and he goes AWOL, and he’s trying to find his way back home back to his woman. He talks about meeting these people that take him in and give him a meal and give him a ride and this old pickup truck. It’s like, “Oh my goodness, what a story that song is.” I just felt I’d love the waltz feel of it. I kept it very much to his arrangement, beefed it up, and made it more produced. I’m proud of the way that one came out.
I’ve also included a version of “You’ve Got to Hide Your Love Away.” To me, it is an epic John Lennon Beatles song. It was one of the first Beatles songs I ever learned to play. I heard Bob Dylan’s influence on that song, and Lennon has been quoted as saying that Dylan influenced him. The way he sings it and the lyrics go down to me as one of the most incredible lyrics of all time, and that song is right in that wheelhouse, for sure.
PRESTON FRAZIER: You end with Lennon’s “Love,” which is another classic.
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: The Beatles, as individuals and solo artists, occasionally write gold – songs that could have been Beatles songs. The Plastic Ono Band version is gold. It’s so stark and honest, just beautiful stuff. “Love” was one that I thought I was going to try to take a stab at, and I tried it as an experiment before I started this album. John’s version was much more stark, so I added drums to my version, switched back to background vocals, and made it a little longer than his version. But it’s an important song, just such a simple, eloquent lyric as far as I’m concerned.
PRESTON FRAZIER: I’ve read that you have been doing some gigs in the Nashville area.
BERNIE CHIARAVALLE: Yeah, and I’m getting ready to do more with a couple of songwriter friends, John Bezner, who’s married to Kathy Matea. He wrote her hit, “Where Have You Been?” And with Bill Lloyd, who was in a band called Foster and Lloyd. I’ve co-written some songs with him and we’ve gotten together a couple of times. We’re picking songs and doing five of each other’s songs. Play five on mine and I’m going to play five of each of theirs, and we’re going to go out as a trio. I’m excited to do that.
I haven’t been on the road with Mike McDonald in a few years because he’s out with the Doobies.
I’m primarily producing. I’ve produced about four or five artists here at my home studio, so that’s really what I’m putting most of my time into. I am writing, recording, and producing with other artists at this point, but I’m anxious to get out there and play live again. This album is important to me, my love letter to these artists is my “thank you.” Besides being with my wife, kids, and grandkids, I love being in the studio, whether writing songs, recording songs for others, or producing songs. It would be nice if I could help younger people discover this music.
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