Micky Dolenz still bristles when the Monkees are referred to as the pre-Fab Four, meant to be a ready-made American version of the Beatles.
“It’s a common urban myth,” Dolenz tells WGN. “If you go to Wikipedia, that’s the kind of thing you’re going to hear. It was actually simpler than that. The Monkees was a television show about a band that wanted to be the Beatles. The whole show was about this out-of-work band that couldn’t get arrested, but were trying really hard to be famous.”
Their every-day misadventures ultimately aired on NBC from September 1966 to March 1968, then captured the imagination of a new generation through reruns in the 1980s. A series of reunion tours have followed — even as many out of their core fanbase, it seems, continued to misunderstand the working-class point of the show.
“That spoke to all of the kids around the world that were in that same boat,” Dolenz adds. “This was not an attempt to do an American Beatles, or else we would have been famous first! [Laughs.] But we weren’t. On the show, we were never famous. It was the struggle for success that endeared it, I think, to a whole lot of kids.”
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Not even in their league…
Right up there with them…..so there
Frankly, I liked them BETTER than “The Beatles”. And still do!
I think they are two such disparate bands that people (back int he day) making a comparison were looking simply at: 1) four young guys 2) playing music. Full stop. It was just a superficial comparison.
FWIW it took me years after I was grown to be able to listen to the Beatles. My parents were of that generation and “enough already Dad” was not said enough in my house (lol) but the Monkees not so much I never didn’t like listening to them.
Doesn’t matter if the a band is good or just o.k.—–it’s the manager and PR that makes a band. The Monkees were actually actors cast to play a band. I believe all could play some kind of instrument, but they were actors for the most part. Davey had been doing theater since he was a kid. Mickey was on Circus Boy t.v. show. The Monkees had some good songs, but they also had good writers. And they had personality. The producers were very smart to cast Davey Jones. He had been doing musical theater since he was a kid, and he was very good looking. Mickey was a good choice to hire as he had acting experience and that zany personality.
They had good writers yes (I mean Neil Diamond, Carol King? Wow…good is an understatement in the extreme lol) but they had talent. Nesmith and Tork IIRC were musicians more than actors. Also don’t forget that Nesmith wrote several of their songs himself.
Oh, I agree; but you have to admit the PR was great! The merchandising wsa great. A t.v. show or good band still needs PR to make it. The show had PR on board even before the actors were chosen, I’m sure. Mike and Peter were good musicians and song writers. Mickey wrote some good songs, too. And the choice of each actor had a purpose. I imagine Davey was chosen to commercialize on the British Invasion, but he was very talented in acting and singing and the females loved him. Mickey had that personality that just shined. Mike was the more serious one with the gimmick of the hat and you could tell he had musical talent. Peter was the blond one. I hate the stigma of being blond and an air head; but Peter’s character seemed to be sweet and childlike.
Absolutely. It was the right show at the right time with all the right people in every single job: writers, musicians, actors, PR, song writers, producers, etc., etc., etc.
I think it was one of those TV shows that was “meant to be” (if anything is ever meant to be) that came at just the right point in time kind of like All in the Family…right time, people, message FOR the time.
The Monkees was irreverent and camp, but America needed that on the whole, people in the older generation were able to see these “wild” kids as not so scary after all and young people say a relatively realistic representation of themselves getting positive attention.
Whenever it’s on (Antenna TV I think) and I hear “we’re the young generation” I have to laugh. I am (ahem) pushing middle age..oh ok, I pushed through already) and they are of my parents’ generation…time definitely marches on. I was 3 when they went on the air.
Cheri, the writing team of Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart compounded by work performed by The Wrecking Crew, which included a fellow named Glenn Campbell who later had some success (read with sarcastic notes) a guy who changed his name to Dr. John and more made up the Wrecking Crew (you can Google that if you don’t believe me, it’s okay, I won’t be mad at you) eh, yeah where was I…either way the only Monkee who played an instrument at the time anyway, now, later who knows, but Mike Nesmith was the only one capable of playing an instrument.
Not a knock against him, but Davey Jones was hyped as the lead singer, but in case you didn’t notice, Mickey Dolenz carried the bulk of the weight in the singing department (what an incredible body of work, huh? Note: NO, sarcastic notes)
As for their live gigs??? I don’t get it. I would think (as much as I TRULY love much of their music) I would think it might have been a little embarrassing to play live and fake playing their instruments. I would be more scared(horrified) than curious to attend a Monkees concert. What was Davey Jones [RIP] (the lead singer for instance) doing while Mickey was singing most of the songs?
Well, that’s my input on this.
Peter Tork was and is a great musician.
But you go ahead and keep on thinking you got it right…
Dr. Morq, if that’s you in that picture, then maybe you’re older than me. I’m only pushing 60 myself. As for ‘thinking’ what I’m “thinking” unquote: WHEN did Peter Tork take up a musical instrument?
If you say that it was anytime during their TV tenure, well friend, YOU have been misinformed.
IF Peter Tork NOW plays a musical instrument, well, I’m glad, really: I mean that. But when the Monkees were on TV; Mike Nesmith was the ONLY Monkee capable of playing a musical instrument.
NONE of the Beatles as far as I know could read music, ut started learning how AFTER they broke through and became a pop phenom.
MYTH, my butt, buddy. True facts.
WFN
for the record, I am 57 years old…
to quote from wikipedia…
”
Early life
Tork was born at Doctor’s Hospital, in Lanham, Maryland, a northeastern suburb of Washington, D.C.[2] Although he was born in Maryland in 1942,[3]
many news articles incorrectly report him as born in 1944 in New York
City, which was the date and place given on early Monkees press
releases. He is the son of Virginia Hope (née Straus) and Halsten John
Thorkelson, an economics professor at the University of Connecticut.[4][5] His paternal grandfather was of Norwegian descent, while his mother was of half German Jewish and half British Isles ancestry.[6][7][8][9]
He began studying piano at the age of nine, showing an aptitude for
music by learning to play several different instruments, including the banjo and both acoustic bass and guitars. Tork attended Windham High School in Willimantic, Connecticut, and was a member of the first graduating class at E.O. Smith High School in Storrs, Connecticut.”
Please, when it comes to music of the 60’s, I usually KNOW what I am talking about. And I admit when I dont or I am wrong.
I can relate to your sentiments of ‘knowing what in the f*ck I’m/___ talking about” syndrome.
Thanks for the update.
I’m sure Peter thanks you, I thank you, ((I’ll be 60 soon.)
‘ppreciate ya!
I stand corrected: Courtesy of Rudi Sauracker, “…
The Monkees although a made for tv group became true artists in their
own right as a group melding the personalities and talents of 4 rather
superb musicians. For those of us who grew up with them, the Monkees
will always be super special.”
For the record, I was 9 going on 10 years old when the Monkees first hit the airwaves. I otherwise stand corrected on my original statement.
NOW you’ve all heard of the Wrecking Crew who performed so much of the Monkees as pre-musician tunes.
Now either this information has been updated, amended and appended some since I first read it or I MIS-read it the first time???
F*ck if I know, but here’s more on the music behind some IF not much, WHATEVER of the early Monkees.
William – each of them were talented musicians in their own right and proved it when they performed on stage. In the beginning studio time was limited but they all did play on some of the earliest studio sessions. It was only a couple of months where they really didn’t but even in the beginning Nesmith was writing and producing.
As Dolenz said – the chances of the Monkees becoming a real band was equal to Nimoy becoming a Vulcan .. but they did and thankfully so. Their later works were really good and have become for many classics that evoke fond memories, a lump in the throat for many of their works and a profound commentary on global issues as with Zor and Zam. Even though Zor and Zam was kinda whimsical, it has great significance and when perceived from a soldier’s perspective – it is hugely moving.
Uh, Rudi. Leonard Nimoy DID become a Vulcan.
Kidding of course but the point is that I like everything you’ve had to say. I got a flippant response from an irate but otherwise cool calm person who, rather than enlighten me with facts, instead basically told me I was out of touch WHICH is not entirely not accurate regarding what I knew about the Monkees NOT playing their instruments. I was (o.o.t. on that). I knew what I knew from my pre- to early teens. You think I followed the Twitter accounts of theirs that didn’t even exist???
I stand corrected on many things that were true for many years, or what seemed like “many” to a 10 or 11 year old.
The Monkees were and still are an awesome musical group. They started with a whole list of limitations, they worked within them and eventually exceeded those limits and became not only a force in the music world but they influenced music for decades since. Both together and in their solo ventures each member of the Monkees has made a solid contribution to music and I am one of their oldest fans. Am I a Monkees nut? No . but I sure appreciate their music and not just the hits – they have some tunes that are more obscure that are awesome – especially when you listen to the lyrics — any one remember Zor and Zam???
When I read “more obscure” “Zor and Zam” came into my head before I even finished reading the sentence. That song is so very very very cool. Also (even though none of them wrote it) “The Door Into Summer” is pretty profound despite the pop music aspect of it.
The Door Into Summer is deeply profound. It reminds me of something the Mike Nesmith would have written. Another tune that qualifies as obscure except to fans of the guys … I also love their rendition of Shades of Grey. Not the most popular but probably the most melodic of them all.
For a long time I assumed that Nesmith had written The Door Into Summer. As you say, it is a very Nesmith-esque tune. Shades of Grey might be one of my all time favorite songs. Not Monkees songs, songs. It only gets more profound as I get older.
Chip Douglas, Bill Martin wrote Door into Summer .. which is one of the coolest tunes going… well … Pices, Aquarius, Capriconr & Jones Ltd is simply and awesome album. What Am I Doing Hanging Round – is another Nesmith vocal classic .. love it, Love is Only Sleeping …
This album along with others by the boys are some of the most underated releases in Pop Music – although I prefer to classify the Monkees more as light rock or rock’n’roll than Pop … The Archies is Pop .. not the Monkees .. 1910 Fruitgum Co, it Pop, not the Monkees.
Now I got What Am I Doing Hangin Round running through my brain ….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSYJDNSUkN8
I wouldn’t classify them as “pop” either. There was definitely a rock thing going on especially with their own work. There was of course a pop element to the early stuff and the Boyce&Hart stuff, but a lot of the songs were very contemporary and spoke to social issues (Pleasant Valley Sunday anyone?) at the time.
Overall highly underrated and their being ignored by the RRHF is criminal IMO, but I guess it is what it is. I just consider myself fortunate enough to be old enough that I’ve been able to go for the ride of their entire career(s)…although I will hasten to point out I was a very very very young child when it started. 😀
Well, I am now n my 6th decade or so .. and I certainly appreciated all the music I grew up with – from the big band era and my favourite singer – Doris Day, along with Patti Page, Dean Martin, Perry Como, Ella and hundreds of others to Elvis, 4 seasons and everything on including the Wizard of Oz hisself – music is the great equalizer.
The Monkees were if nothing else a catalyst for young people to express themselves on mainstream TV in ways that the Stones never could or even Barry McGuire. It was a beginning and those 4 guys did an awful lot to help music progress. So much of their work is inspiring and even though most modern artists may not admit it, there are Monkee influences in a lot of tunes over the last 4 decades.
I would like to see them in the RRHF whilst I am still alive – but the yo-yo’s that do the nominating or selection .. well they are like movie critics – out of touch with the fan base and far too cerebral for the job.
“Words” was unique. Very good work on that one.
NONE of the Monkees wrote very many of their songs. That title, if you check, I think you’ll agree, went to the song writing team of Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart.
“Bill and John Chadwick”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zor_and_Zam
Mimi, Zor and Zam (that Bill & John C. wrote) was the subject of another argument with another person, but it’s all good. Thanks for pointing that out.
wfn
Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart wrote so many of the Monkees tunes and Bobby Hart was very close to Davey Jones – who actually contributed to much of Bobby’s material but not in a co-writer manner .. just a collaborator. They continued for this relationship for decades and at times Bobby Hart actually toured with Davey, Peter and Mickey if memories serves. The Monkees although a made for tv group became true artists in their own right as a group melding the personalities and talents of 4 rather superb musicians. For those of us who grew up with them, the Monkees will always be super special
Yeah thanks Rudi, ‘ppreciate ya’. Davey Jones wrote ‘Goin’ Down,” solo, or at least he was credited solely for it; which I thought Mickey might have been high on something during production BUT what a great job they did, huh?
There are a number of songsmiths who wrote for the Monkees .. Neil Diamond, Carly Simon, Mike Nesmith, Davey Jones, Peter Tork, Mickey Dolenz, the Chadwicks, Chip Douglas, Bill Martin and a host of others … the works were kinda all over the place and one never knew what was coming down the road with these guys. In a space of 4 years, they covered a lot of musical ground as well as semi-political stuff which was stock in trade back in the 60’s.
Whenever I watch one of the vid’s it just takes me back to a kinder, gentler age for most of us (provided we can forget the rage in the south) … at least up here anyways.
Oh yeah. The Viet Nam War. What could have been a kinder, gentler time? But yeah, every night M-F was family night around the TV in our household. I’d take my place at the foot of the couch where my dad’s feet were…it WAS a nice time for us folks back home. But elsewhere in the world, things weren’t so nice.
A lot like the way things are today to some extent. But I’d take “Make Room for Daddy” Batman” Captain Nice” Dr. Kildare Ben Casey, Combat, Peyton Place, Tom Jones, Dean Martin, Lost In Space, Land of the Giants, The Time Tunnel, The Fugitive, Dragnet, Mission Impossible, The Untouchables Naked City Laugh In Shindig Hullabaloo (Hee Haw I could do without to some extent but Buck and Roy DAMN The Twilight Zone, night Gallery, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, The Outer Limits etc. AND of course The Monkees over anything the tube has to offer today.
Good times. Oh yeah.
William, unfortunately over the last 100 plus years there is not one generation of humans especially in the industrialized world that has not known war. Not on our shores until the extremists have attacked both our nations of late, do we see this activity – so we have been kinda sheltered. But, our soldiers – my brothers and sisters in arms, my ancestors, my descendants – all have stepped up to the plate and served so that we can help end misery and oppression world wide. Sometimes we win .. in most cases .. and sometimes we don’t exactly such as Korea and ‘Nam.
The one defining thing that allows us to all cope is music. Thank God for music and thanks for the Monkees and all the other great groups that have allowed our soldiers some respite, some joy when they have a few minutes. Music does calm the savage beast as they say.
Interesting observation of yours regarding warring over the past 100 years. You left out the part though about war and conflict throughout world history.
You wouldn’t believe some of the naive idealism regarding war I’ve been exposed to on FB. I got too aggravated, hit de-friend. I couldn’t take it any more. I log in to relax, not argue with people. I could have married my last girlfriend if that sort of thing relaxed me.
I was and still am very partial to the B side of Valleri. Tapioca Tundra. What a GREAT track. Zor and Zam, I’m not familiar.
Auntie Grizelda, (from their 2nd LP was okay): a BUNCH of tracks from their 1st album: Did you know they ALMOST got album of the year once, except that either Sgt. Pepper or The White Album, I forget which came out JUST in time to knock them out of the box and take the award.
I can’t picture it, A Monkees album from either year, but it’s true.
Then you remember the 70’s era poster, “What If They had a war and Nobody Showed up?” That might have actually also been commented at some point on Rowan & Martin’s ‘Laugh In.”
For some reason I have a vision of JoAnn Worley associated with that in my head.
And btw Mimi thank you for the Zor and Zam link.
My notes, opinions, observations and other little known, widely known or otherwise: facts:
I believe the writing team of Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart compounded by work
performed by The Wrecking Crew, which included a fellow named Glenn
Campbell who later had some success (read with sarcastic notes) a guy
who changed his name to Dr. John and more made up the Wrecking Crew (you
can Google that if you don’t believe me, it’s okay, I won’t be mad at
you) eh, yeah where was I…either way the only Monkee who played an
instrument at the time anyway, now, later who knows, but Mike Nesmith
was the only one capable of playing an instrument.
Davey Jones was hyped as the lead singer, Not a knock against him, but in case
you didn’t notice, Mickey Dolenz carried the bulk of the weight in the
singing department (what an incredible body of work, huh? Note: NO, sarcastic notes)
As for their live gigs??? I don’t get it. I would think (as much as I TRULY love much of their music) I would think it might have been a little embarrassing for them to “perform live” by…. what? Fake playing
their instruments.? (Didn’t Milli Vanilli get slammed good for that in the 90’s? Oh well, good, I didn’t like them anyway.)
As for buying a ticket for a Monkees concert??? I would be too scared(horrified) than curious to
attend a Monkees concert. What was Davey Jones [RIP] (the “lead singer” for instance) doing while Mickey was singing most of the songs?
Well, that’s my input on this.
Oh yeah in comparison and contrasted with the Beatles??? Uhhhh. It was all great entertainment to me. Still is. No comparison musically, but since the subject is actually the “Pre-Fab 4” stigma … who cares.
There’s a quote somewhere (in Mickey Dolenz’s autobiography I think) where he says John Lennon told Dolenz personally what the Monkees were doing was good – they were bringing the counterculture into millions of American homes where kids might not otherwise get to know what was happening out there in the rest of the world. Musically: the boys could sing, write (to greater or lesser degrees), actually played on their own album (Headquarters) and did a tour where they played (I don’t remember the date, but Rhino released an album of it years back). Not the same as the Beatles, but had more than a few good moments.
JC, I was not aware of their becoming musically proficient. (Good career moves though, hey?) Thanks for updating tactfully.
But the Monkees did perform live in 1967, playing their own instruments. I was 10 at the time and really upset that my Mom wouldn’t let me go. As for songwriting, Mike Nesmith wrote the hit Linda Ronstadt had early on called “Different Drum” and a tune made famous by the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band called “Some of Shelley’s Blues”.
I was not updated on The Monkees playing their own instruments until very recently, say, 2014 sometime. I was baffled and afraid to attend a Monkees concert because of that lack of info because I couldn’t imagine what it would be like to see them performing with no ability to play as well as the fact that Davy Jones was given credit as ‘Lead Singer” and in reality Mickey did so much singing.
I knew Mike wrote Different Drum, didn’t know about NGDB song though. Yeah, there was no FB in 1965-67 as you may well know. Just a dumb sheep back in those days being herded with the rest of the mindless flock. Times change, people grow, Monkees learn their craft.